Lets talk about DAW's

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:25 pm

I know some of you are using Sonar for a wokstation and some are using others.....im currently looking into changing mine.....right now I am using Acid Pro 6.0 and this damn thing eats up my RAM something fierce....so, Im asking you fine people to take a minute and post some pros and cons about your DAW....also keep in mind i use alot of drum loops so it would also have to have a sampler function...thanks for your time!!
I could do some research on the net, but i wanted to hear it from you guys first....
Thanks Again,

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:11 pm

Gunner,

I use Paris DAW. I don't think it's really what you'd want if you use alot of drum loops unless you build the loops in another program and then load the drums as a track in Paris. (That's actually what I did on the "Rise Above" song on my artist page. I used drum loops from Acid and built some of the song, including cutting some guitar / bass loops in Acid, but then exported to Paris to finish off the tune.).

Pros: Really good sound Lots of inputs if tracking lots of sources. Very low latency. Card based DSP keeps CPU freed up. I'm not sure how modern CPU power if plugin counts still cause problems, but I get independent EQ on every channel, and have more plugs available than I've needed to use. Max usage would've been 48 tracks as I only have 3 card system. In my experience it's very stable.

Cons: It's a dead system - no longer manufactured - platform is aging although some pros still use it. (this can be a plus because you can pick up a powerful system cheap if what you need is a live tracker). Doesn't integrate well with other apps. It's really a stand alone recorder for the most part, so don't count on it for midi or VST instruments.

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:35 pm

i use Sonar, but am not completely loyal to it. i could see myself switching at some point. i don't use drum loops in it, though, i either create my own with midi, or use something from Reason (which i use a lot!), and usually it's a combination of both. one thing about all DAWs is that they eat away at your system. if you system is getting bogged down, but you actually like using the DAW you've got, you might instead think about upgrading your PC, or just upgrading certain components like adding more RAM, adding a new CPU, and so on. both of those things can go a long way and a very, very easy to do yourself. you might also look at some PC optimization guides to see if you can win back some resources you're loosing without knowing it. i used one for Vista, but here's one for XP that comes from Sweetwater Sound.

as far as switching, i'd think about that first. do you really want to learn a new system? i chose Sonar because i'm familiar with it, it works great with Reason, and it was in the right price range. i've stayed away from protools because once you go to digidesign, you've got to make sure that everything is compatible. you've got a choice between M-Audio and digidesign interfaces, basically. plus, protools LE is what you start out with. to get the good plugins that people brag about when braggin about protools, you've got to spend some major loot. plus, there's no proof that the digidesign interfaces provide any better sound than others. unless, you're talking about their HD interfaces, it just about the same. i've known several people who complain about tones in the 80 Hz range sound muddy, and that the mids aren't as clear as they should be. for something that sounds the same, you can spend a lot less. if there are any non-High-Def users of protools that want to dispute this, please do so, as i'd be glad to hear other experiences.

if you're worried about drum loops, you might want to not worry about that when getting a DAW, and just get something like EZ Drummer to compliment your purchase. Sonar has a plugin called Session Drummer 2 that allows you to use both loops and midi. not sure how to work the loops but the link i sent provides a video that might show that. even with having Session Drummer 2, and a crazy selection of different kits and loops through Reason and the expansion kits i've purchased, i've still thought about gettign EZ Drummer just to give me even more selection. i'm waiting to get bored with Reason before i do that, though.

i just checked sweetwater.com and looked at sony acid pro. it appears that it's the latest version. considering this, the problems you're having may say more about your system than your DAW. if you don't want to list your system specs here, send me a pm with that info. that will probably tell me a lot. if you're running with less than 1 GB of RAM, then i would right there say that was part of your problem. for Sonar 7, they suggest at least 2 GB. i have 4 GB, but also run office software and a host of other stuff that require more. not really required, but fear of not having enough RAM is big with me. i also just upgraded my processor from an AMD Dual Core 64x 2 5000+ (2.6 GHz) to a AMD ...6000+ (3.0 GHz). if i was running XP instead of Vista, i'd be living a dream i think. Laughing

anyhow, just having the minimum requirements of what it takes to run your DAW doesn't mean you'll get optimal performance with it. you want to always have resources to spare, if possible.

the first thing i'd do is go through that guide i gave you the link for and do what it says, for the most part. some of the items (can't remember which ones off the top of my head) are essential for certain programs to function. but most of them are things that will help you gain back resources that are being consumed by software running in the background that boot at startup. also send my, or post here, your system specs. you might not actually need to buy a new DAW, which i'm sure your pocketbook will thank you for. i'm sure that in the Detroit area you have something like Micro Center that sells any computer component you can think of and has great deals on RAM and CPUs. hit me back! Cool

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:43 pm

the "Session Drummer 2" link i gave you has an outdated video. here's another link to the video.

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:08 pm

Thanks guys....that helps alot....unfortunately my system is as follows....
bows head in shame....lol

18 gig hard drive
933 mhz processor
512mb RAM

oh well.....i was hopeing something out there would have fit these reqs but as i see you pointed out Gorg ole buddy....my ram is insufficient to even run with Sonar......so, guess im a gonna have to buy a new PC.....dang it...i just spent $600.00 on a 2000 American made Fender Strat...
well....I'll just keep rollin with what i got until further notice....thanks again guys for your inputs and time...hey at least ya'll got some points right???...lol

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:42 pm

gone for a strat gunner?? nice giutars, i kinda fell out with mine though, i put 9's on it and because i tend to play quite aggressive i kept pulling my top e down over the edge of the fret board!!! i used to love the guitar though... the weight / shapre / sound all were excellently balanced, but alas the whole string over the edge finally made me sell...lol...

as you know i use sonar, but to be quite honest i probably have a greater knowledge of the surface of pluto than i know about the ins and outs of DAWS!!! never had no probs with it personally, but i have 4GB of ram to play with aswell... never used it for drum either so cant help you with that one dude... sorry...

hope you have fun with your strat man!!!..

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:20 pm

if your motherboard will handle 1 GB RAM, then it might work out a lot better for you. you'd notice a big difference. you can also still run Sonar with 1 GB RAM, but it works out better with. it's a different OS and system, too. but you probably have an intel processor, socket 57A or 67A, i can't remember. that's what my last PC was and it clocked out at 833MHz and only expandable to 512 MB RAM. i'm surprised you can run sony acid pro 6 on it and it totally explains why it's so slow and painful. be careful purchasing a new PC. make sure you get XP instead of Vista. save yourself the pain and sleepless nights bashing your head against the wall just praying your skull will fracture and you will go into a coma to wake up to find a world where Vista is no longer the new, unstable system and is the norm. buy a new PC with good stuff, but don't buy one with 4 GB installed, like FaceFlap, when you can get one with 1 GB and buy the extra 3 GB for less than you can if you buy it already with 4GB. that doesn't quite apply to upgrading from 1GB to 2 GB. RAM is cheap, if you know where to look.get one with a 500-750 watt power supply if you plan on hooking a bunch of stuff up to it like control surfaces. good luck and never regret the purchase of american standard strat!!! Laughing

i used to own an '82 american standard. best guitar i ever owned, i think. i knew a guy who knew all about strats, he set it up and i never had a problem. regret the day you sell it!

good luck!

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:40 pm

Its the one guitar ive dreamed of for many years...just never had the money to actually buy one, it plays like a dream...this one will be with me till the day i die.....never thought i would have this kind of affection for an inanimate object...lol
I own a Jay Turser strat copy but never felt nor sounded as good as this strat..the closest i have come is my 1989 Fender Squire II strat .......anyway, I did a little research on the net...apparently there are systems out there that are specifically designed for home recording, so, I appreciate all the feedback....so lets say I purchase this PC....you guys think Sonar is worth the money??...of course I know it all comes down to personal preference, but have always liked the "word of mouth' when it comes to stuff like this....
as far as Acid Pro......as long as i dont use any vst's with the tracks...it runs fine...but as soon as I use a vst for a track, it lags and sometimes freezes....so i have to take each individual track and edit it through Soundforge or wavlab and then reimport it back into acid...it really is a pain in the a$$...lol
ok.....off to bed....talk to ya guys later!!

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:25 am

yeah, it crashes because you don't have enough memory and/or processing power. they make PCs for just recording. that's what FaceFitz has. it's a nice setup, but be warned that it is often pretty expensive to go that route. i guess not much more than doing what i did and that's by a regular one and then change a bunch of the hardware to optimize it for home recording. it could be a touch quieter. i just need to get a fan speed controller thingy. my new processor is designed to be super quiet. but yeah, you'll pay more to go that route. you should check out the Creation Stations at Sweetwater.com. i wished they used AMD processors, or that you had the option, but they still look pretty nice. the processing power could be better for the cost, but you can always upgrade, and upgrading your processor is about the easiest thing to do. just not sure about pricing when it comes to Intel. you'd also be given several interface options like PCI or FireWire, which is nice. you may want to ask FaceFitz about FireWire interfaces and what he sees as the benefits. i had one but it didn't work correctly with Vista. i now use a M-Audio Delta 1010 LT PCI. works fine, could sound a bit better in the mids. i also have an E-MU which sounds pretty good. better than the M-Audio i use at the moment, actually. just far fewer inputs. i probably don't need all 10 of the ones i have now anyhow. i bet your computer's on-board sound card supports ASIO. my old PC did. the new one didn't, which surprised me. i used to run two sound card on my old PC. i'd use on for input and the other for output. it's something i absolutely don't recommend. i'll write more about Sonar later, but i've written enough for now, wouldn't you say. Laughing

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:45 am

lol......@ written enough.....
I think i might go with an upgraded processor and hard drive and ram....i can get that stuff relatively cheap on ebay.....yes, my souncard supports ASIO....and my Line 6 Guitarport is connected directly through that and is the main source of intput....i just upgraded the soundcard last year, and upped my graphics card.....so, i think i will just upgrade the rest of it......
so essentially the point of this thread is now pretty much dead....lol
but i appreciate all the tips and such...
have a good one!

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:28 pm

not dead yet! Laughing

when i was talking about ASIO, i meant the on-board soundcard that came with your computer...that it supported ASIO. i'm trying to figure out if we pretty much had the same system.

anyhow, you'll have to see if your motherboard is even expandable to over 512 RAM. that was the final straw for me. mine wasn't. i could easily upgrade it to a 1.3 GHz processor, but the RAM was already maxed. you might run into that. it took me forever to figure it out too, since the motherboard was actually an old intel board. i was saddened to see that was the case and it just broake my heart to have to convince my wife i needed a new computer. Laughing

anyhow, i hope your board is a bit new and you can expand. it's funny to think that about 8-9 years ago, a machine like that would have cost like $600 or more. Laughing

good luck. now i think the thread is dead.

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:23 pm

gunner,

just read your system stats.

If you're going to be doing alot of live tracking with high number of playback tracks you probably want to get something with 2 hard drives. One for the program and system files, and the second one to record to/play back from.

BTW, I run Paris (3 card system) on an old PC but the DSP cards handle all the processing as long as disk drives can handle the playback so the processor doesn't really matter. I think my PC is like an 750mhz Athlon, WinME, 512meg ram, 2 40 gig HD. I think I've been able to get 48 tracks realtime playback with this system, but not certain I've loaded every available channel up at the same time. At least 35-40 though. I mention this because there are systems that don't all rely on the CPU - there can be DSP cards that take that burden off the CPU.

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:02 pm

E-MU cards do that. i have a simple E-Mu 0404 that i actually think sounds better than the M-Audio Delta 1010 LT i'm using now. Sonar also seems to like it better as well. i just need to switch it back out. such a pain after all the other crap i've been through since getting a machine with Vista.

i second smili on having two drives. it's just good file management. i was a fan of the 2 drive system before i even started recording. good data management is crucial and also saves you time in the long run. that might all be good news to you.

i get what smili is saying about getting a good DSP card, but i also think your results will be different, since you're using way newer software than what he is. like most things, the new the software, the more features you have and the more resources it takes up. i still think your idea of upgrading your components is a good idea. once you start running VSTs and the like, you might need the extra kick.

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:00 pm

Ya know what???...im an idiot,,,,yep...a certified dumbass...lol
My brother in law looked at my PC and says "damn, you got a lot of things runnin there dont you"?
i said "What do you mean"?
He says "PC runnin a little slow lately"?
"yes"
then he showed me all the sh@t that was runnin in the background.....
man oh man.......that seemd to be the whole problem......
Now im runnin Acid with all the bells and whisltes and quite a few VST's at the same time....
damn...I guess you cant teach an old dog new tricks!!..........lol
Thanks anyway guys for all your input....and that is what makes this is a great forum community...guys like you!!
Thanks again...
Im off now to record some sh@t!!!
weeeeeee

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:01 pm

and not to mention 20 points for that post......now only 5279 points till i get that damn t-shirt.....
well it will be even less after this one!!!!....lol

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