Mixing and Mastering

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:05 pm

I would like to hear how some of you mix and master your tracks,
how much compression what plug ins you use etc...
you dont have to give away all your tricks, but any help would be useful to most of us.....
also,,,if you have any links to good info on the subject, that would help too,
and if your a sound engineer,,please take the time and post a step by step process to get that awesome sound....ya know something like this...
step 1- set everything to 0db
step 2- set compressor at x amount
etc...etc...
Thanks in advance to all those who take the time to share!!
GG

ubw newbie Joined: Oct 15, 2007 Posts: 47

IMHO... the first and MOST IMPORTANT step, is quality gear!! Without it, no matter what you set ANYTHING on its gonna sound like mud.....Anywho, When WE did our studio trax, we had
1. Korg 64 Ch. "stand-alone" Digital studio
2. Carvin 24 ch. premix board
3. 2 TC Helicon Vocal Processors.
4. 2 Carvin 24 ch. rack eq.s
5. DBX 160SL Stereo Compressor/Limiter
6. Mesa Triple Rectifier Head w/Mesa Half stack (for Rhythm)
7. Lee Jackson Half stack (for Leads)
8. 1 INSANELY expensive to build, fully soundproof, 4 iso-room, basement studio, with over 15,000 just in the audio Foam.(Not ours, of course.....were MUSICIANS and cant afford such pleasantries)

We had our compressors set around 4 (a lil higher fo the lead trax)
Vocals only had a slight reverb
All the rest was done on the Korg "stand-alone."

I know the tech doubled all tracks, and panned on left, one right, for EACH track...I.E.
Track 1-Rhyt. guitar LEFT
Track 2-Rhyt. guitar RIGHT
Track 3-Lead Guitar LEFT
Track 4 Lead Guitar RIGHT
SO on and so forth..... We laid down the whole song in one take, then went back and re-played EACH individual part for the Final cut..... that gave us each the FULL song to play along with, keeping in the same time signature throughout.....
Hope this helps someone...... CHEERS!!!

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:49 pm

Thanks man...that does help.....but i should have been a little more specific.........i really meant digitally mixing and mastering.......everything on the PC....lol sorry for the misunderstanding...but still good info though

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:34 am

Yea im deffinately up for the PC mixing / mastering masterclass, any one with the knowledge please help!!

nice info on your post btw padlock, was interesting to hear you recorded it all down in one the did each part again seperately, i bet that made things quite a bit easier.... Cool

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:11 am

gunner,

there are recording and mastering pros on the rec.audio.pro newsgroup who have posted a ton of great stuff. I'm a hobbyist, but the general theme I got from all of those guys was

#1: Capture the sound the sound perfectly at the source. Don't think you can fix it later.
#2: Capture a great performance. A great sound doesn't mean much without having an excellent take - preferably with the full band grooving.

There seemed to be general agreement that compression was over-used in an effort to increase loudness in modern mixes resulting in a lack of dynamics. Some of the favored compressors: RNC Really Nice Compressor on the affordable side, and lots of good remarks about the Distressor on the more pricey.

some things that I've learned or like:
- when mixing, if make a habit of turning stuff down rather than turning stuff up. when you find that you want to hear more of something figure out what other sounds are in the way and turn those down instead.
- try to leave breathing room in the mix. strapping a compressor on can help the loudness, but it can also increase the clutter in a mix.
- sometimes scooping out frequencies with the EQ can help some, especially if multiple instruments are fighting over the same soundspace. This is particulalry useful in creating room in the mix for the vocal.

- TLM103 mic set out in front of a drum kit seems to capture the overall flavor of the kit well.
- on electric guitars, I love doubled parts, with one panned left and the other right.
- on acoustic guitars take time and position the mics carefully to get some great sounds, but slight movement from the player can change the sound alot. Really like the sound of a condensor mic pointed at the upper neck of acoustic, not at the sound hole. position another mic aimed more at the body /bridge area if you want a cool stereo sound. Work with the EQ curves on the acoustic too, you can usually get rid of boominess if it's there.
- When starting a mix I find the drums the most difficult to get sounding the way I like, so I'll work with those tracks first before I pull up the rest of the music. Pay attention to compression pumping too much given the transients on some of the drums. Lots of strange phasey things happen with drums/cymbals.
- In rock music alot of times the guitars don't need much compression because their signal is already so flat. The bass guitars will tend to have more peaks to worry about, but just be careful to not smash out too much of the attack on the bass or it'll sound mushy.
- I love big thick mixes, so I have to fight the urge to overfill the sounds and try to remind myself to leave it room to breath.

BTW, I used Ensonic/EMU Paris DAW and it had built-in effects that used the processor on the soundcards themselves, so I can't mention much about the software plugs as the only vst plug I remember using was a reverb plug, but can't remember it's name. (Used on the intro of the "I might Bend" song - I liked how it sounded w/ acoustic guitar and voc)
http://www.unsignedbandweb.com/music/bands/1424/

I think alot of the pros may still use/prefer hi-end outboard compressors for critical use, including the final mix/mastering stage.

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:42 pm

Thanks for the info.....
i use Ozone 3 and Yamaha final master....but......Instead of "cheating"...lol
its nice to be able to mix and master the tracks without Ozone etc... to do it for you..ya know??
Thanks again....im gonna listen to that track right after i type this Smile

GG

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:08 pm

just to touch on what smili was saying about acoustics...you shouldn't ever mic over the sound hole. i agree, condensers are great. depending on the mic, i like to either mic my guitar below the bridge - 4" or 5" away from the tail; or where the neck meets the body; or higher on the neck; or a combination of two of the three. it really depends on how warm of a sound i'm going for. i also absolutely LOVE ribbon mics! of course, i've found that they don't work on every song. i guess a good way to think about mics is to think of them as paint brushes and the DAW (or whatever it is you're using) as the canvas.

another advantage to using multiple mics when recording acoustics is that you can easily blend the tracks to get a variety of sounds that you just can't get using only one mic in one position. and yeah, you've gotta stay still. i hold my guitar pretty much in the same position every time i play, and over the years i've switched to holding it like a classical guitar. i've noticed that my partner, who holds his western style, is a lot less consistent when it comes to staying in the same position. he argues vehemently that he hasn't moved, but you can hear it.

well, that's my contribution to this thread. the rest of it will be me just mooching off the rest of you. Laughing

this is all the info i've got! Laughing

probably why most of the tracks i record here at home don't turn out so stellar. Laughing

thanks to all of you have been contributing. so far, all the info has been very promising. i hope to have all my bugs worked out in a few weeks and will be able to start really putting some of this info to the test. thanks again! Cool

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:42 pm

followup on acoustic guitar micing. It's probably easier to move the player than it is the mic. Since when I've recorded acoustic it's often been me recording myself I set up the mics and move myself around with the headphones on until I hit a sweet spot and I try to stay still. The position is so critical on guitar because it often sounds best with the mic maybe just inches off the fretboard. and like gorgatron said - hold that spot still. you'll notice it if you start swaying or moving as you play.

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:57 am

gunner, I went and turned on my DAW and found the project that used the vst reverb plug. The name of it was Freeverb2.

I can't find a working homepage for the guy who programmed it, but to my rather untrained ears it was a richer verb than the reverbs available from the DSP on my Paris soundcards (and it was maybe 5 yrs ago too). I liked the DSP plugs for most things for (EQ and compression mostly), but this one VST plug I remember standing out.

It's freeware, and looks like it can still be downloaded at some of the sites below

http://www.sonicspot.com/freeverb/freeverb.html
http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/programs/Freeverb/download.shtml

It sounds like there may be a newer version freeverb3, but I'm not sure this version is related to freeverb2
http://sourceforge.net/projects/freeverb3

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:19 am

gunner, i've read several posts where you talk about vst plug-ins and once you even posted the link to the free plug-ins. i'm familiar with the format, as it's common with most DAWs, but what i'm unsure of is whether these free plug-ins work with DAWs like Sonar, Cubase, Protoos and so on. i guess i can't see why they wouldn't and i've seen all kinds of vst plug-ins for mastering ($500/Plug-in sometimes) in the latest sweetwater catalog. but just to know for sure, because i hate reinstalling software and risk having projects load correctly because i've stored something in a funky place - i'm way better organized than before due to my new PC, though. i have Sonar 7 Studio, which doesn't come with the nice mastering rack like producer. i'd love to be able to pick up several of the nice plug-ins advertised in sweetwater, but they are ridiculously expensive. it'd be sweet to get something decent for free. even if it's a nice reverb or compression. i'm not familiar with using compression, so learning with something good will hopefully make it easier, and sound better until i get it right. Laughing

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:16 pm

Thanks again for all the info......yeah some of those plug-ins are insanely priced.......some of them ive picked up for free along my journey into the deep bowels of the internet...unfortunatly sometimes i go so deep ive forgotten most of the sites where they are free....sometimes you can pick up some that are still in beta stage and all the programmer wants is some feedback......
mmmm....looks like i may have to go in again and see if i cant find some good free ones that are compatible with Sonar and Cubase and such and post the links here......so, give me a couple of days and lets see what i can come up with!!!
This should be fun Smile

Thanks Smili...gonna head over and get that one...can never have too many.....or maybe thats my problem...lol...

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:09 pm

I'm not sure if all of these work with Sonar or not, but here's a list of 670 free vst plugins. don't know anything about them, but maybe one of you will find something you've been looking for:

670 free vst plugins

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:25 pm

HOLY SH*T....lol
Thanks!!!!!

moderator Joined: Jun 30, 2007 Posts: 333

there is also a good enhancer solution at :
www.winamp.com (a media player)
download it for free and add it some dsp plug in (espially an enhancerthe site give you all the plug in you want and there are people that devellop it like amateur and pro too(but all the plug in featured in the site are free)) and you'll produce the master of your dream in a quarter when u get ready with winamp features...
(you can buy it in this case it just grab cd at the format you want in addition of the normal version)
Audacity is good with vst plug in but if you search for a minimal complete mixing solution the best is too use fruity loops it's the more complete and easy for amateur and semi-pro, it accept vst and is really terrific you begin to understand all the features.I was lasy leaning it but i definitivly choosen it for my mixing work before the ultimate post masterisation.The only problem with fruity loops is that it's very expensive if you want the complete version and you will maybe get discoraged by the amount of littles basis to know in order to work efficiently...there is no ideal solutions about masterising but if you can build a compact project with fruity loops you can rework it at the source with the project WHICH WILL STILL ALWAYS GIVE A BETTER RECORD THAT TRYING TO MASTERISE A WAV OR MP3 SINGLE FILE.huggggggghhhhhhh

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:44 am

i checked out a few and the links are dead, but many still seem to be around. some also look like crap, but out of 670, there's got to be some winners. Very Happy

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