The old 'pay 2 play' argument.

ubw newbie Joined: Dec 01, 2004 Posts: 20

Is there any unsigned act out there who actually makes money or prefers doing pay 2 play gigs? I personally cant stand those snake promoters lining their pockets with the crowds that bands initially bring to venues. The quicker we see an end to this way of promoting unsigned acts, the better. I cant stand being told 'Either bring 25 folk or pay for the unsold tickets'.
I dont want to pay to play at my own f**king gig thanks very much mister snake promoter.
Rant over.
No sir, I dont like it!

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:44 am

Maybe for the first couple of gigs pay2play is ok, getting the band "out there". After that, y' want the money.
In this little port of hell where I live it's always "play2pay", it's the unsigned glory of the north-west UK.

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:54 am

Hi

I'm afraid that my english is too approx to understand well what you're speaking about....what is pay2play? does it means that you have to pay if you want to play?

alek Cool

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:29 am

OK! Thx Brooksy for the pm...Now I understand and I can't believe it....Dunno if that kind of things exist in France....but my own experience was that I played for "free" at the beginning (twice i think) but never had to pay to play !!!!!!!! And wouldn't have payed....It seems to be such a "dirty, sad, poor, pervert" deal....

I really do prefer he "bepayed2play" system........

peace

alek Cool

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:22 am

Ure welcome

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:31 pm

I've never had to pay2play before. hope I never do either...

Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:49 pm

Must be a European thang!! (Flamin' typical!!) Shocked

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:00 am

Problem is that the only audience at the pay to play gigs have been invited by the bands- so you never really expand your listeners unless your mates bought them in. When you play the London venues - some of them (ie. Bar Fly, Borderline, Water Rats,) have a regular audience who come to check out live bands - trusting that the promoter has filtered out anything too dire. Pay to play gigs just want arses on seats so the music is more likely to be dodgey. Theory is that if you can pull in big enough crowds on the paytoplay circuit you'll move up to the venues that have there own audience. Reality is you lose money on the gigs and without some kind of deal (ep, indie what ever) you'll be playing them forever - you also get jaded sound guys in these venues who spend half the gig at the bar!.(Happened to us at the Camden Underworld - result? Whole band and road crew pissed down the steps to express our gratitude at the professionalism they had exhibited)

ubw rookie Joined: Sep 17, 2004 Posts: 149

That was/is big in cali... The club owners have to make money too. You are basically
"renting" the club to play. It's hard to play all origanals and make money.. When I was on the east coast A circut we played 60/40.(covers/origanals). Club owners can't make money on songs nobody knows. I know it sucks playing covers ,but if you can do the 60/40 thing, you can build your fan base, play all the time, sell your swag and get paid for doing what you love.Yes promoters/club owners use us... So use them! Play the covers that bring people in to buy drinks and promote your origanal stuff ! It's all about making $$$$. Our agent used to make 10 - 15% on every gig we did. Wich really wasn't that bad considering because of him we played 5 - 6 nights a week and the money we made was very nice. We played on the road and I swear we may have had @ 12 days off in a year.. Not counting travel days! So promotors/agents can be a good thing.
Wait till ya get a deal... You wanna see snakes?! Shocked

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:41 pm

Well sure, that's how it should be done.
There used to be a day when say if you had £3.00 on the door and 300 people came, ok, so that's £900, the venue used to take, say half and keep the bar revenue. Alm,ost fair.
But what's happening now, is bands are having to rent the venue, hardly charge because many places think charging on the door scares away the crowd. Basically: Goin' in with nothin'...comin' out with less.

I have a little problem with promoters/managers/agents etc. at the moment, lol, but from seeing countless bands and getting to know who runs the backstage, I've seen 'em rise then fall.

Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:31 pm

bottom line - if anyone can come up with a way to weed out the wannabe's and the no hopers and guarantee a quality night with unsigned bands that will pull in the punters - you have a license to print. Don't like the system as it is but can't see another way for the people taking the real financial risk (ie promoters or venues) from getting screwwed otherwise........

ubw rookie Joined: Sep 17, 2004 Posts: 149

Wow that sucks!! No door charge? What the??? That's not fair! Evil or Very Mad

I see your point.

The old 'pay 2 play' argument.

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