Wattage.

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IlikeTheWipers
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:58 pm Reply with quote

Hello all, I am quite new, and just wanna succeed be passionate about music blah blah blahh! Anyways, I play rhythm/lead guitar in a grunge band and I need to know how many watts of pure ugly dirty distortion I need? I'm looking at this 100 watter Fender Frontman 212r. Anyways, just tell me what YOU guys think. Obrigado. Surprised
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gunner
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:54 am Reply with quote

well....a few questions first....
How much money do you have to spend?
are you looking for just a practice amp or something to play venues with or both? how loud do you practice??..etc..etc..
but going forth without the answers to these...
Tube,Tube,Tube.....get a tube amp....if you can afford it, which i am pretty sure you are broke like the rest of us..lol..but if you can, get a Mesa Boogie,
my last guitar player had a Mesa 5/30 switchable from 5 watts to 30 watts and at 5 watts it was louder than my 120 watt crate solid state...which is understandable, but anywho, there are a lot of amps out there that are affordable and loud..and then you can always buy a distortion pedal....to beef it up a bit....thats my 2 cents anyway...good luck and Welcome to UBW!!!
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IlikeTheWipers
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:39 pm Reply with quote

Alright, thanks. But yeah, I'm broke haha. I only want the Fender 212R because it is 100 watts for 330$. And I'm just looking for something that can easily over power my drummer without having to turn the volume and gain at 10. And if I get half the money for it, my dad says he'll chip in the other half.
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smili
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:45 pm Reply with quote

Be sure to check out Harmony Central user reviews. It's a great place to find out what owners of gear think of it. Of course there's a tendency for most people to like what they have, but reading through it all you can find out why people don't like it also.

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar+Amp/product/Fender/FM-212R/10/1

Tube Watts do sound louder than solid state watts, so don't just think watts=loudness. A smaller wattage tube amp will in practical use be as loud as a 100W solid state.

The problem with tube amps tends to be that you have to crank them for them to sound really good - so a 50W tube amp is pretty impractical to use for anything when practicing at home. Solid state you can turn down and be fine. That's why you see all these little tube amps springing up for sale - like the Blackheart Little Giant that operates at 3W or 5W - you can crank it up inside your home and get really good tone, but the windows don't crack and the police don't show up. Blackheart has a similar Handsome Devil model with 15W/7W switch that I hear alot of folks find fine for gigging. (not sure if it works for grunge though). So you really need to evaluate an amp based on perceived loudness, not the wattage.

All else being equal, doubling the wattage will increase loudness about 3db, so going from 5W to 10W is 3db louder. going up to 20W gets you 3db more. going up to 40W gets you 3db more.

One other thing. Some speakers are more efficient than others. Some players will actually search out inefficient speakers to try to lower the volume of a too-powerful amp --- effectively sucking the power out of the amp to bring it down to non-earsplitting levels.
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IlikeTheWipers
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:14 pm Reply with quote

Yeah, I still have alot to learn. Tube amps are way to much for me at the moment, maybe when I get a job or work the corners or something. But yeah, thanks, I'm just trying to find something with volume, and built in distortion (That can get dirty), and something with a amazing clean channel or acoustic effect. Do you know anything that falls under those categories? I see that their is a Fender Frontman 212R DSP, which has more effects, but no clean channel or reverb.
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gorgatron
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:14 am Reply with quote

i mostly do acoustic, but have some experience with amps and such. i would stay away from amps with a lot of built-in effects!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i hope that is enough emphasis. i'd also follow gunner's advice about going tube! if you're planning on miking the amp when live to run through the board, you really don't need all that big of an amp. you could get by with two 10", or better still, two 12". you can get decent tube amps for just a little more than what you're planning on spending on the fender frontman. i think the tube versions of the same fender amps run about $100-150 more than the solid state.

as for effects, be choosy and go with pedals. they are way less expensive and you can resell them when you're sick of them. i know it sounds good when you read that an amp has a bunch of different effects, but you've got to assume that you won't be satisfied with all of them and wil end up buying pedals anyhow. you can also often find used pedals, so you don't end up having to pay too much for them.

i know it's a lot to sort out, though, and sometimes you have to settle for something that you're not quite happy with. you can always upgrade later on. the big purchase, the amp, however, you'll probably want to make sure you feel really good the first time around. good luck with whatever you decide and be sure to post some tracks here at UBW for review once your band gets some ideas down on disc! Cool
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IlikeTheWipers
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:38 pm Reply with quote

Oh I will.

I'm looking at the Fender FM 212R, it looks superb for classic rock and all that jazz <--Literally, but I need to know what kinda balls this thing has with distortion and other pedals. Because my Marshall 30 watt amp, when I put my Boss DS-1 pedal on top of the clean channel, I get this shrill, trebly, sound that sounds far away and it's icky. And I don't wanna make that mistake with this amp. So does anyone know how it takes pedals?
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gorgatron
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:36 pm Reply with quote

do you have a Guitar Center or another bigger vendor near where you live? i mainly ask because even though i try to buy from local owners, i find that i can do a lot more research at a bigger store. even if you have to drive a couple hours, it might be worth it to go to a shop that has some of the gear you're looking at and then test the hell out of it. i live near a Musician's Friend distribution center and warehouse store. it's really nice. i don't buy a lot from them because they are kind of pricey, but i sure take advantage of the possibility to try out kick-ass gear!!! Very Happy i sometimes just got to check out what's new, and scope amp prices (i'm also looking for a new amp btw, very slow process). anyhow, the best way find the sound you're looking for is to try out a bunch of stuff. i often look at the pricey stuff first, and once i find a good sound, i then try to see which of the more affordable models i can get to sound like the expensive one or at least close to it.

sorry i can't provide you with a direct answer to the new question.

easy! Cool
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IlikeTheWipers
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:15 pm Reply with quote

I will go to GC this weekend, but I have been looking at this SansAmp Tech 21 Tube Amp Emulator. It looks kick ass, and it will make any amp scream from the sounds and looks. Anyone know about it?
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gunner
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:09 pm Reply with quote

also, look at craigslist.....in whatever area your in, lots of deals there,
if i were you.....i would take Gorgatron's advice and find an amp with very limited and/or no effects at all they end up being a pain in the ass anyway, and some effects have a slight delay when switching to another one...anywho, find a loud amp, get a couple of pedals and rock on!!
here is an example of a craigslist ad i found for the exact amp you have stated so many times you want....but its in Michigan..lol..but check it out..ya never know what you might find..


fender guitar amp FM212- 2-12 speakers - $225 (warren )

......$ 225 cash only no trades.....an awesome guitar amp..used a few times in a large hall....awesome marshall and mesa and fender twin reverb sound ..An affordable, easy-to-use addition to our top-selling FM family, the new FM 212 DSP features quality amp modeling and DSP effects (including reverb, delay, chorus, tremolo, flanging, Vibratone and combinations).

The two heavy-duty 12" Special Design speakers are driven by 100 watts of pure Fender tone, making it one of the fullest-sounding small combo amps available today. And it provides lots of opportunity for sonic fun and experimentation! Includes two-button channel selection and effects on/off footswitch.


* Location: warren
* it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

image 1252144733-0 image 1252144733-1
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gunner
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:15 pm Reply with quote

Check this one out i found at GC...hell, i may even go get this one...lol
by the way this is last ad i am putting up here...so your on your own kid..lmaoo
http://www.guitarcenter.com/B-52-LS100-and-LS412A-Half-Stack-482088-i1385190.gc
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IlikeTheWipers
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:56 pm Reply with quote

Thanksss, I used to be a craigslist purist. But I want something brand new this time.
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smili
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Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:41 pm Reply with quote

IlikeTheWipers wrote:
Oh I will.

I'm looking at the Fender FM 212R, it looks superb for classic rock and all that jazz <--Literally, but I need to know what kinda balls this thing has with distortion and other pedals. Because my Marshall 30 watt amp, when I put my Boss DS-1 pedal on top of the clean channel, I get this shrill, trebly, sound that sounds far away and it's icky. And I don't wanna make that mistake with this amp. So does anyone know how it takes pedals?


Have you read through the Harmony Central reviews suggested? Over 70 users, many professional, have posted their impression and usage of the amp you're looking at.

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar+Amp/product/Fender/FM-212R/10/1
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IlikeTheWipers
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Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:54 am Reply with quote

Ehh, I'm going for a Peavey Vypyr all tube 60 watt.
It's 450$, but I will save up and wait longer to get a new amp.
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